Free Iraq
The US's occupation of Iraq will see to it that the Lion of Babylon rises again .. سنـُبعـَث ُ من جَديد ، وإلى ضَـيـرِِهِـم
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| Unrevealed Milestones in the Iraqi National Nuclear Program: 1981-1991 | معالم وأحداث غير مكشوفة في البرنامج النووي الوطني العراقي 1981-1991 | 
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Thursday, January 20, 2005
And the concerned Iraqi people?
"When dozens of suspected fighters showed up for a so-called peace conference in Baquba on Tuesday, they told the governor sponsoring it why they would not lay down their weapons ahead of elections."
.... Many of the men - from clerics and tribal leaders to ex-army officers and professionals - just wanted to know when U.S. forces would leave. .. "I would have signed it [an oath printed in Arabic and English] if it said no attacks on Iraqi forces, but no attacks on U.S. forces when they are occupying the country?"
.... "This pledge commits you to not even speak against the Americans. I cannot sign it," said cleric Fouad Attiya, 40."If I call from my mosque for occupation forces to leave my country does that make me a terrorist? Is this the freedom and democracy they are bringing us?"
Suspected fighters vent frustrations January 19, 2005
and
No takers as U.S. offers forgiveness to insurgents January 19, 2005
Now here is a whiff of democracy !
"As it now stands, there are three situations under which American forces could withdraw: we achieve our goals and depart in triumph; we are asked to leave by the Iraqi government; or we leave Iraq in chaos but spin it as a win. There are obstacles or drawbacks to all three.
Achieving our goals may be impossible now with the current levels of insurgency and distrust. Iraqi leaders may be slow to show us the door if we are guaranteeing their security.
Lowering our standard of success is unlikely to increase American credibility either at home or abroad.
Why not let the Iraqis themselves decide? (my italics) Ask Iraqi voters in a referendum six weeks after the national elections if they think foreign soldiers should withdraw immediately. Let the Iraqis debate what the absence of American forces will mean for their families and nation. Tell them we'll hold the referendum every nine months until they vote us out or we determine it's time to leave."
Should We Stay or Should We Go? January 19, 2005
Would this proposal not encourage/assure the participation of all Iraqis?
Better still, include that choice in the 'democratic national elections', as is often done in other referendums. The sooner you know, the better, no?
You ready to take over?
Hear ye, hear ye! Come and get some freedom
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What's with this indignation with the American Occupation?. Bombs are going off killing more Iraqis than Americans. Elections ...FREE ELECTIONS...the first of three scheduled to occur inside of a year are going to be held shortly and all you can do is grouse about is the humiliation of the occupation. I don't blame anyone for intensely disliking the conditions of the occupation but when people of your ilk condemn the conditions of the occupation more than the terrorist acts of the so called resistance, then I have to wonder your good faith. Be honest, your grievance is not just agains the American occupation its with the whole of idea of popular representative democracy. Does anyone in their right mind think that if the Americans left tomorrow, things would sort themselves out peacefully?...Ha...such a lie. Still, I have come around to your way of thinking. I want to pull our boys out...NOW. The Iraqis are not worth one more drop of American blood. Let's pull out our boys and we can watch with grim satisfaction as the car bombs go off with even more frequency and the Iraqis slaughter one another. In this conflict, the Sunni Arabs would end second best. Many Shiites have grudges and will never forgot what was done to them. The Sunnis will be surrounded and their carnage will be so awesome that they will not only rue the day that the Americans came but also the day that the Americans left.
I am sick of snivelling do gooder Amerikans who are so bent on "saving the world". Take your blinkers off you dumb mother-fuckers and see that people want to make their own choices, not necessarily the choices that the "enlightened" Amerikan fuckwits and the "free" westerners VANT for DE VOLD.
The west has long plundered the world. Your "freedoms" came on the back of enslavement and the plundering from others over centuries... and what a surprise!! You haven't changed!
I hope you all choke on your "democracy", your enlightenment", your own brand of fundementalism ... better yet why don't you just shove it fair up your bleeding arses!
I hate you and what you represent.
The west has long plundered the world. Your "freedoms" came on the back of enslavement and the plundering from others over centuries... and what a surprise!! You haven't changed!
I hope you all choke on your "democracy", your enlightenment", your own brand of fundementalism ... better yet why don't you just shove it fair up your bleeding arses!
I hate you and what you represent.
# posted by 
: January 20, 2005 4:31 AM
: January 20, 2005 4:31 AM
Regarding Chrisbeckus (which I presume stands for Christ Beckons Us, or is that US) comment on Iraqi deaths:
Kindly look at this particular posting of January 5, 2005: "The accumulating evil of the whole" and Fallujah martyrs
Kindly look at this particular posting of January 5, 2005: "The accumulating evil of the whole" and Fallujah martyrs
My best hope now, and I have been quite hopeless for much of the last two years, is that the Iraqis who are elected will quickly ask us to get out.
We have spent 150 billion crushing Iraq, and 1 billion helping build it back up.
I hope we spend a few billion a year to help reconstruction for years after we leave. And not stupid "paint the schools" projects, but real stuff. How are Iraq's rail lines? Does Baghdad need a subway system?
We have spent 150 billion crushing Iraq, and 1 billion helping build it back up.
I hope we spend a few billion a year to help reconstruction for years after we leave. And not stupid "paint the schools" projects, but real stuff. How are Iraq's rail lines? Does Baghdad need a subway system?
Josh, you are a bit naive, I am affraid. Do you think Bush and his puppet-masters - big business and neo-cons -are going to quit because some ungratefull Iraqis would ask them? Ever heard about 4 permanent USA military bases in Iraq? If you really want USA army to leave, do something - if you are still live in democracy when your (and a lot of others) opinion matters!
Lidia
Lidia
# posted by : January 20, 2005 8:30 AM
: January 20, 2005 8:30 AM
Would the newly elected "independent" Government of Iraq be permitted to hold a referendum on the issue of occupation? Certainly, I think the idea has merit, although I am wondering as to just how much sovereignity the new Government will have.
However, on the issue of war reparations from all countries in the ""coalition of the willing", surely the Iraqi Government can place that before the United Nations? One of modern history's gravest mistakes has been made....invading and occupying a country on a littany of lies. There should be compensation.
However, on the issue of war reparations from all countries in the ""coalition of the willing", surely the Iraqi Government can place that before the United Nations? One of modern history's gravest mistakes has been made....invading and occupying a country on a littany of lies. There should be compensation.
The Americans are said to be building fourteen bases in Iraq and the world's biggest embassy. Will they really leave those behind as well as the planet's second largest oil reserve? Would U.S. troops stay or return if the "next" Iraqi government wants to base the price of oil on the euro, possibly influencing OPEC to do the same? That won't be too good for all the SUV drivers.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_shooting_in_tal_afar/html/1.stm
this has been happening fairly regularly since 2003 - see Human Rights Watch (www.hrw.org) on civilian casualties
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_shooting_in_tal_afar/html/1.stm
this has been happening fairly regularly since 2003 - see Human Rights Watch (www.hrw.org) on civilian casualties
# posted by : January 20, 2005 10:01 AM
: January 20, 2005 10:01 AM
What's with this indignation with the American Occupation?and what's this indignation with khadduri's opposition to the occupation?
although neither the occupation nor the insurgency caused the other, they feed off each other and both have killed iraqi civilians. how nice of you sitting thousands of miles away, sipping your coffee, and moralizing about what people in iraq should be feeling. maybe if iraqi troops were roaming around your city, shooting up random cars as insurgent bombs go off nearby you would not be so enthusiastic about life under occupation.
although neither the occupation nor the insurgency caused the other, they feed off each other and both have killed iraqi civilians. how nice of you sitting thousands of miles away, sipping your coffee, and moralizing about what people in iraq should be feeling. maybe if iraqi troops were roaming around your city, shooting up random cars as insurgent bombs go off nearby you would not be so enthusiastic about life under occupation.
"neither the occupation nor the insurgency caused the other"
I beg you, tell me the cause of "insurgency" if it is not "the occupation"? I guess it must be opposition to gay marriage or something of such sort
Lidia
I beg you, tell me the cause of "insurgency" if it is not "the occupation"? I guess it must be opposition to gay marriage or something of such sort
Lidia
# posted by : January 20, 2005 6:57 PM
: January 20, 2005 6:57 PM
This is a letter printed today in one of the UK broadsheet newspapers. No civilian, no one, can be expected to vote under such conditions.
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Gunmen have stopped my family voting in Iraqi electionI am a 49-year-old Iraqi woman. I reluctantly fled my homeland 10 years ago, and I have settled in England. My family still live in ... a middle-class suburb in west Baghdad and has a mixed Shi'ite and Sunni population. In spite of the risks involved, my family were planning on voting in the Iraqi elections that are due to be held at the end of this month.
Yesterday, they were visited by one of their local shopkeepers. He asked them to hand over their ration books to him for "temporary safe-keeping". It is by means of these ration books that voters will be identified when they cast their ballots on 30 January. He informed them that he had been visited by masked men carrying guns, who told him that they would be back. The gunmen had ordered him to collect the ration books from his neighbourhood, and said that if he failed to do so, he and his family would be killed.
It was when the shopkeeper came back to call on my family a second time, sobbing and begging them not to condemn his children to a certain death, that they reluctantly handed over their ration books. They will now, like many others I am sure, be unable to cast their votes at the end of this month.----------------------------------------
Rachel, a Brit in London
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Gunmen have stopped my family voting in Iraqi electionI am a 49-year-old Iraqi woman. I reluctantly fled my homeland 10 years ago, and I have settled in England. My family still live in ... a middle-class suburb in west Baghdad and has a mixed Shi'ite and Sunni population. In spite of the risks involved, my family were planning on voting in the Iraqi elections that are due to be held at the end of this month.
Yesterday, they were visited by one of their local shopkeepers. He asked them to hand over their ration books to him for "temporary safe-keeping". It is by means of these ration books that voters will be identified when they cast their ballots on 30 January. He informed them that he had been visited by masked men carrying guns, who told him that they would be back. The gunmen had ordered him to collect the ration books from his neighbourhood, and said that if he failed to do so, he and his family would be killed.
It was when the shopkeeper came back to call on my family a second time, sobbing and begging them not to condemn his children to a certain death, that they reluctantly handed over their ration books. They will now, like many others I am sure, be unable to cast their votes at the end of this month.----------------------------------------
Rachel, a Brit in London
# posted by : January 20, 2005 11:56 PM
: January 20, 2005 11:56 PM
The referendum! I hope not to many people are fooled by this Bush administration idea. Undoubtedly this website is under scrutiny by Bu$hCo.
The referendum idea for Iraqis exists in two places in the TAL. Do the US people have referendum power over to withdraw the US forces from Iraq? Not by our Constitution, the stupid President has that power.
In Iraq, the Iraqi people have referendum rights in articles 53 and 61. 53 relates to forming sub-national regions, and 61 is about the process for approving the new Iraqi constitution (to be drafted by the winners in the Jan 30th election).
The referendum poster will likely not be seen here again, Imad, but you will continuously have people attempting to undermine the truth here. You are a magnet for such agitprop.
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The referendum idea for Iraqis exists in two places in the TAL. Do the US people have referendum power over to withdraw the US forces from Iraq? Not by our Constitution, the stupid President has that power.
In Iraq, the Iraqi people have referendum rights in articles 53 and 61. 53 relates to forming sub-national regions, and 61 is about the process for approving the new Iraqi constitution (to be drafted by the winners in the Jan 30th election).
The referendum poster will likely not be seen here again, Imad, but you will continuously have people attempting to undermine the truth here. You are a magnet for such agitprop.
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